Dark Messiah graphics issues on ATI HD3870

[Blín D'ñero]

How the game looks on my HD 3870, compared to my X1900XT, both using Catalyst 7.12, and at the same settings in CCC and ingame.



Problems that look very bad:

- the "grab" icon has a horizontal line
- the HDR effect on the lit windows is out of proportion, extreme, and can not be corrected by setting HDR to 'Bloom' or 'None'.
- exceptional FOG-effect
HD 3870:



















When setting High Dynamic Range to "Bloom" or "None" it still looks bad:





While it SHOULD look like on my X1900XT:
















On both systems i use the same settings:

Settings in CCC @ default (3D settings = "Use application settings").

Settings in game:



HD 3870 PC:
System specifications:
CPU: Intel C2D E6750
CPU cooler: ZALMAN CPNS9700LED
Motherboard: ASUS Maximus Formula (bios 907)
System RAM: 4 GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500
Videocard: Sapphire HD3870
Soundcard: Creative X-Fi Platinum
Harddiskdrives: WD 3200AAKS + WD 5000AAKS
PSU: Coolermaster Realpower M850
DVD-RW: Optiarc (NEC) DVD_RW AD-5170A
Monitor: Eizo T965 @ 1600x1200/85Hz
Coolermaster Stacker
Keyboard: Logitech Internet keyboard
Mouse: Logitech G9
OS: Windows XP Professional 32-bit
DirectX9.0c version: November 2007
Game: DVD version Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (patched 1.01 and 1.02)
The game runs very well on HD 3870 @ 1600x1200 maximum ingame settings. Measured in Fraps:
Min, Max, Avg
48, 116, 75.918

X1900XT PC:
System specifications:
CPU: Intel C2D E6600
CPU cooler: ZALMAN CPNS95500
Motherboard: ASUS P5W DH (bios 1602)
System RAM: 2 GB Corsair PC2-8500
Videocard: Club 3D X1900XT/512MB
Soundcard: Creative Audigy 2 ZS
Harddiskdrives: WD 2500KS + WD 5000AAKS
PSU: Coolermaster Realpower 550W
DVD-RW: NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A
Monitor: Eizo T765 @ 1600x1200/85Hz
Coolermaster Stacker
Keyboard: Logitech Internet keyboard
Mouse: Logitech G9
OS: Windows XP Professional 32-bit
DirectX9.0c version: November 2007
Game: DVD version Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (patched 1.01 and 1.02)

[Blín D'ñero]

Sadly, second time replaying DM on HD 3870 card, i encountered a third problem
(that never happened on X1900XT).
I would call it

Exceptional FOG-effect

It is NOT related to the issue mentioned in Cat 7.12 Release Notes:

[*] Dark Messiah, Might and Magic, or Sin Episodes: Too much fog or incorrect fog no longer occurs during game play. This issue was known to occur on systems containing an ATI Radeon™ HD 2x00 series of product. Further details can be found in topic number 737-31101

This happened only once (yet), on two places close to eachother, during one gaming-session. A minute before, this happened in the outside area running down the stairs.
This was in level Temple of Spider. After fixing the elevator in the upper area, returning down to this place, after having killed all Goblins that were guarding.

It was this area:



Between the log and the wall, then towards the opening



Standing between the hanging log and the wall:


... When i looked up, it was gone:



moving camera downwards, it reappeared. It was a 'glimmering' fog (not static).




camera entirely down, it hangs on for a second,



... then disappears.


(Btw, note again the horizontal line in the upper half of the grab-icon, the way it appears always throughout the game, on HD3870)

Notified Catalyst Feedback Crew of this as well.

[Blín D'ñero]

Well i think this is the clue:

On Radeon HD 3870, the light-effect from the 'goodies-star' is simply much too bright. The 'HDR valve' is opened too far, should be turned back a few notches! But it can't be done through the game's Options panel, and i want to keep ATI CCC settings all at default. It should be done in the drivers.

3 screenshots to illustrate the glimmering light that goodies shine (when they do), captured at 3 stages from its faintest to the brightest moment, as it appears throughout the game on HD 3870.







Isn't that rediculous. The brighest is absurd. Picture 1, the faintest, would be bright enough (maximum!) and is what i was used to on X1900XT. Please dim that light a tad, ATI.

One of the bugs in this game is that the 'star' on a goodie doesn't always shine, maybe only 5 out of 10 times it does (broken game code?).
My theory is that when a goodie fails to shine because of broken code, the videocard still thinks it must display the reflection of the light on the surrounding walls (maybe X1900XT did that too, but so faintly you could never notice, that card doesn't exaggerate) but the card doesn't know the location of the source (the star isn't there), so it fills the whole room with reflection... and on HD3870 (as it exaggerates anyway, see above screenshots) it can lead to the 'foggy effect' in the Temple of Spider screenshots (below).



Yes, keeping replaying the game on 3870 i'm seeing this ofter. The situation is always similar: either a bottle in the room that fails to shine but the walls still reflecting the supposed glimmering, or a bottle that shines faintly but spreads it throughout the room (foggy).



After reloading, the effect is gone (no shining, no reflection).

In all other cases where a goodie shines, it shines too bright or even rediculously bright.

[Blín D'ñero]

Closer to the clue.

Noclipping to such window. WHY does it look different on HD 3870? Look at the lit windows again.

On X1900XT:
Beautifully shining.


Close-up:
Good transparency.

See1600x1200 pixels 1900XT version - picture 1


See1600x1200 pixels 1900XT version - picture 2


See1600x1200 pixels 1900XT version - picture 3

On HD 3870:
Shining like a Lighthouse.


Close-up:
Not as transparent as it should, almost solid.

See1600x1200 pixels 3870 version - picture 1


See1600x1200 pixels 3870 version - picture 2


See1600x1200 pixels 3870 version - picture 3

Note also that on X1900XT the 'noclip-space' is very dark blueish black. On HD 3870 it suddenly becomes absolutely WHITE! When looking around, the whiteness starts creeping like a fluid over the screen behind the decor (or rather, the blackness is eaten up by the brightest light).

[Blín D'ñero]

By the way,
Disabling A.I. in CCC does not solve any of the problems. Worse: it triggers huge fog effects in rooms and on distant landscapes.
Setting A.I. to Standard seems optimal; Advanced gives occasional crash.

Also, disabling AA and setting Filtering to Trilinear/Bilinear have no effect on the problems at all.

[Blín D'ñero]

Replaying for a third time on HD3870 i keep getting the foggy glimmering.

Temple of Spider again. Back to kill the Goblins. Approaching the place, kneeling to aim at them, the glimmering fog appears.



After killing the Goblins. Yes there are still 3 bottles of potion in the room. The bottles are NOT glowing, and the room is filled with the glimmering fog.



My inventory is saturated with potions i don't even use. So i eat some, then i take all potions left in the room.



After taking the last potion out of the room, the fog is gone.



Back into the hall where the elevator is there is also the fog (because there is a bottle of 10 health):




Not taking the bottle. Just save. Then reload the savegame, and the bottle suddenly shines:




Not taking the bottle. Just reloading again the savegame, and the bottle does not shine this time, but also no glimmering fog.

[Blín D'ñero]

The 'foggy light' is the most serious of the 3 problems. It ruins the game. Because:





When you have found a secret box in a narrow room and open it, you can't see what you're doing anymore:



walk back out of the narrow space to measure the impact:


When you walk back to the box and close it, the fog is gone:



As usual, save and reload makes the fog effect disappear. But it should never happen in the first place! It never happened on the X1900XT.

[Blín D'ñero]

Even with Catalyst 8.5 it's still happening.
Btw: the easiest way to reproduce the problem is:
walk into an empty room, then drop an item from your inventory onto the floor. You would then see a pulsating mist filling the room.

Can't wait to get my hands on a HD 4870. First thing i'll check is if this issue is herited, hope it's history with the new cards.

[Blín D'ñero]

Today received my HD 4870.
Drivers: Cat 8.7 final
Vista 64-bit
So far:
- the "grab" icon had a horizontal line <-- is now solved!
- the HDR effect on the lit windows <-- with 4870 the windows are in between 3870 and X1900XT results, acceptable.
- exceptional FOG-effect <-- it still happens, but less dramatic. Never the rediculous 3870 exaggeration that you can't see what you're doing anymore.
I am now convinced it is a game's bug. Based on the fact that the 'magic view' (that you can see through boxes, walls, where a secret is located) is a broken skill: normally you would have to acquire it with 1 skill point, but when you start a new game it seems to be enabled by default, now and then it works now and then it doesn't work. And that's similar behaviour.
The issue seems to be like this:

1. the bright star on the object: sometimes 'glow', sometimes 'not glow'
   +
2. the saturation of the light: sometimes high, sometimes low
   +
3. the reflection light from the glowing object: sometimes 'glow reflection' and sometimes not 'glow reflection'

These three values turn out randomly.
So: sometimes you get only the reflection in the room, without the source (the central bright star on the object itself)!
Sometimes the brightness of the star is much too saturated, as if it is multiplied like crazy.
This bug is hardly visible on X1900XT, very visible on 3870, and in between (moderately) visible on 4870.[/size][/color]

[Blín D'ñero]

(Update) Screenshots taken on 4870X2, with Catalyst 9.2.
Today it is looking very nicely balanced:


close up of how excellent the goodies shining is now:


But the exaggerated shining still happens every now and then. Even in the same room, where one goodie stops shining entirely, the other is exaggerated for 10 seconds, then stops for 5 and starts again, and two other goodies are shining perfectly, all at the same time.
Also, the fog filling up the entire room returned a few times.
So it's most likely a game's bug.

I'm holding one option open: that it is a AA issue. So from now on i'll treat DM the same as Half-Life2: ingame no AA, but in CCC 8xAA (edge detect) plus Adaptive AA enabled. Maybe someday i'll learn something new regarding this issue.